作者聊天
前法官大卫·塔特尔写了他对正义不减的看法
2024年6月5日
大卫年代. 塔特尔即将出版的回忆录， 《视觉:失明与正义的回忆录是对20世纪60年代的一瞥
70年代的民权动荡, 对司法哲学的反思, 以及对残疾生活挑战的坦诚反思. 塔特尔有遗传病, 色素性视网膜炎, 这导致病情恶化，最终失明, 尽管他对正义和司法的看法没有减弱.
Tatel retired from the bench earlier this year, having spent 30 years on the U.S. 哥伦比亚特区巡回上诉法院, 接替1993年露丝·巴德·金斯伯格空出的席位. Previously he was the founding director of the Chicago Lawyers’ Committee for Civil Rights Under Law, 全国法治民权靠谱的滚球平台委员会主任, and director of the Office for Civil Rights of the United States Department of Health, 教育, 和福利. 自从退休, 塔特尔回到了霍根路伟的私人诊所, 他第一次加入是在1974年，当时还是霍根 & 靠谱的滚球平台事务所.
D.C. 酒吧最近与Tatel谈论了他即将出版的新书, 他的司法哲学, 还有他的导盲犬, 唠叨的女人.
你为什么给你的回忆录起名 愿景?
The book has two themes — blindness and justice — and the word “vision” covers them both. 我在书的开头引用了《韦氏词典》对远见的定义. 我很感兴趣的是有两种定义. 一个是看的行为或能力, 但另一个是一个想法, 概念, 或由想象形成的物体. 我不能按照第一种定义来“看”, 但我有视力是因为视觉发生在大脑中, 我的视觉来自于我得到的信号和信息, just as you get; they just come to me differently … The other side, 当然, 我的异象是关于律法的吗. My whole legal career and judicial career have turned on a particular vision that I have of our judicial system and how courts are supposed to operate.
这是你的第一本书. 你以前考虑过写一本吗?
是的，是的. 这本书有一章叫做“太美而不能燃烧”.” It’s about a case I worked on with the Lawyers’ Committee for Civil Rights Under Law in Mississippi, and it involved the NAACP’s boycotts in the ’60s and ’70s of white merchants throughout the state who wouldn’t hire Black employees … The white merchants responded by filing a state antitrust action.
(我参与的)这个案子的核心是白人商人, 由白人公民委员会资助, 基本上就是乡村俱乐部版的三k党, won in state court a million-dollar judgment against the NAACP and the boycotters. NAACP没有一百万美元, and it was very clear from their financial records that paying it would have bankrupted the nation’s oldest civil rights organization and many of the individuals involved. The problem for the NAACP is that they couldn’t appeal under Mississippi law without posting a bond equal to 125 percent of the judgment. 他们筹不出这笔钱.
审判的那一天, 我向密西西比州的联邦法院提起了诉讼, arguing that requiring the NAACP to file this bond interfered with its First Amendment rights, 也就是抵制, 以及宪法赋予的诉诸法庭的权利, 我们赢了. The district judge entered an order allowing the NAACP to appeal with the Mississippi Supreme Court without posting the bond.
The NAACP lost in the Mississippi Supreme Court, as we expected, but … in a case called 全国有色人种协进会v. 克莱本五金有限公司., the NAACP won in a ringing endorsement by the Supreme Court of the United States. 这个案例对所有的抵制活动都很重要，因为它清楚地表明, 尽管抵制可能会对其目标造成经济损失, 抵制者的行动受到宪法第一修正案的保护.
I had a plan to move [to Mississippi] for a year and to interview the boycotters and others involved. I thought it would make a good story about the civil rights movement in an unusual little town. 它会被称为 美到不能燃烧, 因为在内战期间, after Grant came down the Mississippi and captured Vicksburg and headed toward Jackson, 他的军队经过吉布森港, 它位于俯瞰密西西比河的悬崖上. 故事是这样的，格兰特命令他的部队离开这个小镇. 他说, “这个小镇太美了，不能被烧毁,’ and that phrase still appears today on the badges of firemen and on the signs going into town.
我想，我有了一本书和一个很棒的书名. 我写了一份提案，但没人感兴趣. So, 我从来没有写过这本书，但仍然有一个伟大的标题, 我用它作为第六章的标题 愿景].
你的司法哲学是如何形成的?
I try to answer that question in my book, in a chapter titled “The Art of Judging.在我预约之前, 我当了很多年的执业靠谱的滚球平台, 在法庭上打官司, 但我没有当过法官. 以下是相关节选:
我需要一个司法上的北极星, a set of principles to guide my decision-making and to help separate my judicial obligation to faithfully apply the law from my personal views about right and wrong.
我首先在司法传记中寻找这些原则, 我在准备参议院听证会时狼吞虎咽的. The two that stuck with me were my friend Gerry Gunther’s lovely book about Learned Hand, and John C. 杰弗里斯为刘易斯·F·肯尼迪大法官撰写的传记. 鲍威尔小. 熟练的手(是的, that was his real name) was the greatest appeals court judge never to reach the Supreme Court. 尽管他有几十年的经验和无与伦比的智慧, 汉德方法的特点是自我怀疑.…
我被鲍威尔的故事吸引是因为, 像我这样的, 他已经直接从私人执业变成了法官. 也喜欢我, 他找到了自己的第一年——节奏, 大量的新发行, 孤立——尤其具有挑战性.…
汉德和鲍威尔正是我想成为的那种法学家. 他们直截了当. 他们努力识别，然后忽略自己的倾向. 最重要的是，他们相信司法克制. 我很快就知道, 然而, it was one thing to believe in judicial restraint and read biographies of judges who had tried to live up to that ideal, 把它们付诸行动又是另一回事.
So, 上面写着我是怎么开始的, and in the following chapters I hope to be able to explain to my readers how I put those principles into action, 以及这些原则如何影响我对今天最高法院的看法.
从法官席退休后，你又回到了霍根. 是什么把你吸引回律所的?
I was the director of the National Lawyers’ Committee for Civil Rights Under Law from 1972 to 1974, 我喜欢这份工作. 但有一天，我和当时的霍根搭档一起办案 & 哈特森，他负责他们新的公益部门. 然后他们称其为社区服务部. 我是约翰·费伦, 他之前在哈佛教过书, 1970年，律所聘请他成立了公益部门.
约翰和我成了好朋友. 我们在一起办案, 一起来自佛罗里达州的就业歧视案, 霍根同意为靠谱的滚球平台委员会代理这件事. One day he said to me that Hogan wanted him to become the managing partner of the firm, and [he] said he would on the condition that he be allowed to bring in someone to take over his program, 我会喜欢那份工作吗?
嗯，那是我梦想中的工作…在一家大靠谱的滚球平台事务所做公益工作. So, in 1974 I came to the firm, first as an associate and then as a partner running the program. 吉布森港的案子是我在霍根时处理过的. 两年多以后，我离开了，加入了卡特政府, 在那里我管理着美国民权办公室.S. 卫生、教育和福利部. 然后, 1979年我回到公司，一直呆到1994年我被任命为止, 在此期间，我创立并管理了公司的教育业务.
So, 我在这家公司一共工作了25年, 霍根对我来说是一个美好的家, 在早年, where I got a firsthand look at how really good litigators function both at a trial court and at the appellate level. 那段时间我学到了很多东西.
当我在球场上的时候, 我和许多以前的合伙人保持着友谊, 我继续把霍根当作我在法律界的两个家之一. And when I finally decided after all those years to take senior status and eventually retire, 我想不出还有什么比回到霍根更好的了. 那是我的家. 我只是觉得那是我该回去的地方.
你的导盲犬唠叨的女人分享了你回忆录的封面. 告诉我你和她的关系.
My relationship with 唠叨的女人 started, unfortunately, later in my life than I now wish it had. 1979年回到霍根后，我开始使用拐杖, and I got pretty good with my cane [but] it didn’t give me all the independence I wanted. There was too much time worrying about whether I could find someone to walk across a particular street with me or get to the Metro. The city was getting more dangerous because there was more traffic and more construction, 更大的广场. Open plazas are a challenge for people using a cane because there’s nothing to tap on.
我在书的最后一章讲述了这个故事，《靠谱的滚球平台》.“有一天，我11岁的孙子, 谁养狗?, 带着他让我和他一起听的播客出现了. 是关于一个导盲犬训练项目的.
我从来没想过要一只导盲犬，因为, 在这些项目中, you have to go to the program’s facility and live there for a month to learn to use the dog, 我不可能做到这一点. 我只是没有时间. 但我是在康涅狄格州发现的, there is a program called Fidelco Guide Dog Foundation that only brings the dog to where you live.
我注册并申请了. 花了大约一年的时间. 找一只导盲犬就像上大学一样. 有表格要填. 有面试. 有家访. 一年之后, a trainer showed up in a van with this beautiful two-year-old German shepherd named 唠叨的女人. (培训师)花了两周时间和我们在一起，教我如何和唠叨的女人一起工作. 她受过全面的训练. 她只需要对我有信心.
我和唠叨的女人一起去任何地方. 她出差. 我们乘地铁上下班. 她喜欢自动扶梯. (我的妻子)伊迪和我现在住在弗吉尼亚的乡下, 唠叨的女人和我花了很长时间, 每天长时间散步, 有时沿着乡间小路走六英里远. 在我有了唠叨的女人之前，我不能自己做这些事.
唠叨的女人给了我很大的独立性. 这是一段非常美妙的关系. 不仅仅是因为她是一只导盲犬. I’m totally attached to this beautiful animal, and she’s a big part of my life and my wife’s life. 我养狗的时候没想到会这样. I had no idea of how capable these animals are, or how deeply the relationship would develop.
读者怎样才能找到你的书?
《视觉:失明与正义的回忆录 可以直接从我的出版商那里购买， 桦榭 或者从大多数主要经销商那里. 新书发布会将在 政治与散文 6月11日晚上7点.m. 我会和作者谈谈这本书 《纽约客》 特约撰稿人简·梅耶尔在活动现场向公众开放.
